MAP 073: The Biggest Mistakes Mortgage Lenders See Realtors Make w/ Phil Treadwell

Ideas are good, plans are better but execution is what differentiates Realtors. The most successful real estate agents identify likeminded mortgage partners and invest time and energy into building those relationships.

When speaking to Phil Treadwell, Host of Mortgage Marketing Expert Podcast and VP/Area Manager of Highlands Residential Mortgage about what he thinks is the biggest mistake mortgage lenders see real estate agents making, his answer was simple; not taking the time to foster quality relationships.

Having a first-class team (agent, lender, title, etc) can lead not only to your clients success but a mutually gratifying experience for all. Understanding how to add value to your clients experience begins with a great introduction to your team, which Phil covers perfectly in the podcast, and identifies how their service experience will depend on having a team who knows how to work cohesively and has a track record of getting the job done well.

One huge misconception in building great partner relationships between lenders and realtors is the expectation that lenders have to be handing over leads. Value lies in working with lenders that have a high level of trust and their service standard matches yours, regardless of a lead. Thriving businesses are built on quality relationships, not a barter system. Understanding how to generate those trusting relationships is the key to longstanding success.

Phil points out how affective marketing is the balance of trust and attention. Creating an in-person experience through social events, such as happy hour, community events or other gatherings leads to the development of trust with likeminded people. Social media and and digital technology is important to maintain an open line of communication and provide valuable content resources, but creating a real world experience will always have a greater impact on generating fruitful long lasting real estate agent/lender relationships.

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SPEAKER_02 0:00

On this episode of the Massive Agent Podcast, we're sitting down with Phil Treadwell, host of the Mortgage Marketing Expert Podcast, to talk about some of the biggest mistakes that lenders see realtors making.

SPEAKER_03 0:11

The Massive Agent Podcast. The leads are agent different strategies to give you more leads and sell more gold.

SPEAKER_02 0:19

I love to buy houses. I like to sell houses.

SPEAKER_03 0:24

Wait a minute. Leads a week. I've had better better. Have I got your attention now? Here's your host, Dustin Broome.

SPEAKER_02 0:38

What is up, everybody? Welcome to episode number 73 of the Massive Agent Podcast. Welcome. I appreciate you tuning in. We've got quite a show today. This, of course, the number one podcast on planet Earth, hosted by me. And that's that's that's science. We are a proud founding member of the Industry Syndicate, the first media network in the real estate industry. And today's guest is actually one of our co-founders at the Industry Syndicate, Phil Treadwell. He's not only the host of the Mortgage Marketing Expert Podcast and Flash Briefing, but he is a regional manager of a fairly large mortgage company. And he has some interesting insight. He's been in the mortgage industry for over 15 years, and he sees a ton of lenders and agents, and he something interesting that their company has just implemented, or his region anyway, anyways, they've just implemented a policy, so to speak, around co-marketing with Zillow. And that's interesting. And uh really interesting insight because he has a totally different perspective than I have as a real estate agent. He comes he sees the lender side and he sees lots and lots of different lenders and the relationships they have with their agents. So we're gonna find out how we as agents are screwing up. What are the mistakes we're making from a lender's viewpoint, from their point of view, what are we doing wrong? So this should be a great show. If you're new to the show, my name is Dustin Brome, your host. I am a national speaker, trainer, and real estate marketing coach. I'm based in Salt Lake City, Utah. I'm a real estate agent here with EXP Realty. I'm also the host of our brand new Industry Connected show, which is now a live podcast as well. So if you've been missing the Facebook Live show over on the uh the Industry Syndicate Facebook page every Friday afternoon at 2 p.m. Eastern, now you can catch up on past shows or listen to future shows on all podcast platforms. Wherever you're you're listening to this show, you can also find Industry Connected, a proud uh show that's proudly produced by the Industry Syndicate. That show is for agents and loan officers, and it's different from this show, which this is a real estate marketing show. Industry Connected is more real estate news, industry talk, uh, you know, adult, honest conversations about the problems and threats that that we're facing as an industry right now, and the solutions to those. So please tune in if you haven't yet. Go check out Industry Connected, our new show. Um, I'm also the founder of the Massive Agent Society. That is our Facebook ad, lead generation training and coaching program. If you uh it's also our one agent or one lender per market program. So there's there's some there's some markets out there that are sold out forever because we have lifetime memberships that a lot of people, a lot of you guys have taken advantage of wisely, because it's just insanely inexpensive to do that, especially when you compare it to other coaching programs that are like, you know, almost $2,000 every three months, and then you never even get to speak with them with the head coach guy that has his name on the frickin' coaching program, anyways. But, anyways, besides that, that's besides the point. Take control of your lead generation and exclusively claim your market. More info at massiveagentsociety.com. And before, well, this is this is a good little point here. Okay, since we're going to be talking to a lender with the lender's perspective, we'll probably get more lenders listening to this episode uh than usual. Agentology, one of my favorite vendors, one of my favorite partners out there, they respond to all of your leads. Okay, you can you can set it up so that anytime you have a lead come in from any source, Facebook ads, Zillow, Realtor.com, um, you know, YLOPO, whatever it is, your website, any lead that comes in, Agentology will respond within five minutes, guaranteed, 24-7, 365, by a human being in San Diego. Okay, in the United States, a human being, it could be three in the morning, a lead could come in, and about half the leads come in after hours, anyways. 3 a.m., you're sleeping, or you should be, and your you know, your leads are being responded to within five minutes. It's a beautiful thing. Agentology is now available for lenders too. It's not just for agents. More information at massive agentpodcast.com slash agentology. Again, that's massive agentpodcast.com slash agentology. These this is one of my favorite vendors out there for real estate agents and loan officers. I love that I love that now they're doing this for lenders. And this is very this is a great episode to mention this on because I'm telling you guys, getting leads is key and responding instantly, no matter what time of day it is, or if it's Christmas morning or whatever, is so crucial. You have to respond within five minutes at the very most. And these guys will do it through a combination of phone call, email, text message, and a human being is doing those that stuff. It's not all automated, it's not just some computer. So cool. MassiveAgent Podcast.com slash agentology to learn more about that. All right, let's bring in Phil Treadwell. Phil is somebody that I met. You know what's crazy? It feels like I've I've known Phil for such a long time, but I first met him at the HousingWire Engage Marketing Conference in Dallas, but I think that was like September. Was that September of last year? It wasn't that long ago. And and we we met there, we had a conversation, really hit it off, very like-minded. We see the world the same way in a lot of ways. And uh he has a lot of really awesome ideas and and a ton of experience. Like his resume is stacked. He's been a loan originator, like he's been in the trenches, he he knows how to do loans, he knows how to work with agents, he knows what a real estate transaction actually looks like, how it should go together. He knows the pain points of agents and loan officers. Like he's in the trenches, and now he's the regional manager, um, overseeing lots of people at a very high level. So let's let's jump right into it. Talk to Phil Treadwell about the biggest mistakes that he sees from a lender's perspective that agents are making. All right, sitting here with Phil Treadwell, host of the Mortgage Marketing Expert Podcast, and he has been running successfully, I might add. A uh he's the regional manager for a large mortgage company. And and like I said in the intro, he really has some amazing perspective on what goes on in different relationships between a lender, his side of the industry, and agents, my side. And so I wanted to get his perspective because as you guys know, we just launched Industry Connected, my new Facebook live show and podcast for the industry syndicate that's really for agents and lenders. And I want to uh I w I don't think it does us as an industry any good, really, uh depending on what we're talking about, but it doesn't really do us that much good to only speak to mortgage people or only speak to agents. We all do the same shit. Like we're all we're all going for the same consumer. So let's get into it. Phil Treadwell, welcome to the Massive Agent Podcast, my man.

SPEAKER_00 7:45

Hey man, I I appreciate you having me. Um, I just want to say for for the record that I had you on my podcast months ago, and so I think the original invite to be on yours may have got you know like lost in a spam filter or something. So um I appreciate you.

SPEAKER_01 8:00

It just wasn't that.

SPEAKER_00 8:01

I appreciate you having me on. It's gonna be fun.

SPEAKER_02 8:04

Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, and if if you guys want to hear a little bit more background of my story, maybe stuff because I whenever I'm on someone else's show, I kind of go a little more in detail than I ever have on my show. So that's a really good episode. I think it's episode 30 something of yours. Do you do you remember off the top of your head?

SPEAKER_00 8:22

I don't off the top of my head. It's one of those episodes that you try to forget, but I can definitely look it up now.

SPEAKER_02 8:27

Fair enough. Fair enough. Yeah, just look it up. Uh just put Dustin Broome into the deal and look for a book.

SPEAKER_00 8:33

It's actually episode 28 in January. So it only took uh four months to to reciprocate uh the invite. But no, in all honesty, it was uh it's one of our highest episodes uh that we've received feedback on um just because the content was was very applicable and similar to the conversation we're getting ready to have, I wanted to share with the mortgage audience the real estate perspective. And I think that the the uh realtor lender dynamic is is an interesting relationship and it it adds so much uh to the viability and and the the benefit on both sides to really understand um you know both uh both standpoints.

SPEAKER_02 9:16

So for sure. No, are you are you sure you're not just being nice because you're on my show? Are you sure you didn't just get more complaints than you did from any other episode?

SPEAKER_00 9:24

No, the Venmo came through, so we're good. I'll say whatever you need to say.

SPEAKER_02 9:28

Bribes work, people. Bribes work. Seriously. It works for home inspectors. I mean, they drop off uh barrels of candy at real estate offices and somehow things still get business.

SPEAKER_00 9:38

So donuts have been working for lenders for years. So bribes absolutely work.

SPEAKER_02 9:43

Yeah, donuts are tried and true. Phil, so real quick, bring everyone up to speed on who the hell you are. How did you get into this business? Let's talk about your you know what you do right now and and give them a little glimpse into the perspective that you do have because you you're definitely one of the movers and shakers on the mortgage side, and we're honored to have you. So bring everyone up to speed.

SPEAKER_00 10:05

Man, I appreciate that. So um I'm currently the uh vice president area manager for Highlands Residential Mortgage, based in Dallas, Texas. It's a mid-sized mortgage banker. Um I'm also, as you mentioned, the uh founder and host of the mortgage marketing expert podcast. I got in the mortgage business almost uh a little over 15 years ago, actually. And I got into it because I answered a newspaper ad, ironically. It was early 2000s, and I answered an ad for someone that was looking for sales and management experience, and it ended up being a mortgage company. Um at the time I was uh thinking about contemplating takeover of my dad's business. He's a builder, and um he you know said you don't remember how difficult it was through the you know late 70s, early 80s. So I really want you to think long and hard before you do that. So I want you to look and see what else is out there. And I fell into the mortgage business and and uh been here ever since. Um started out with a a small mid-size uh lender who um was an actual lender as opposed to a broker, and they had control of the transaction, they underwrite it, closed it, fund it themselves. And I had a great mentor that taught me the fundamentals of how to be successful in the business. He talked to me about operational excellence, he talked about the you know, having quality relationships, um, putting together a quality loan file. And through that, as I got into the mid-2000s, um, in the few years before the crash, where a lot of people were doing you know, these subprime products, the toxic products, all the things that you know people hear about, um, I didn't do those products because I didn't need to. I had a mentor that taught me the right way to do business and and that realtor relationships was was really what that was what that was founded on. Excuse me. So so having said that, as I as I moved forward into my career, I opened up my own broker shop. Um I sold out to one of the largest lenders in the country at the time, uh, went to work for them, realized, hey, I'm not a big fan of uh working for the huge big banks. And uh for the last six, seven years, I've worked for um again, mid-sized mortgage lenders who uh you know still have the flexibility of a small company, but some of the cool benefits and and uh offerings of a larger company. And uh as far as the podcast, that was really a happy accident of you know, really trying to show uh my team how to put out content and not necessarily ask for anything in return. I saw a lot of people through social media and different channels putting out content, you know, playing with um social media videos, podcasting, and it was full of you know the ask, if you will. They were trying to either gain viewership so they could, excuse me, so that they could get sponsorships, or they were trying to sell their product or something of that sort. And I really just wanted to show them how to add value. And so since I wasn't originating, I had gone back to just being a regional manager. Um, I my audience was was other mortgage professionals that I was either wanting to recruit or you know, my sphere of influence. And so the the podcast was really a play on social media. I put out a mortgage marketing tip of the day on Instagram to start. In about 30 or 45 days, I had uh over a thousand followers on Instagram. I realized I was on to something and it and it evolved into the podcast. And so it's it's been a ton of fun to get to talk to you know, uh movers and shakers within both real estate and mortgage and you know, get to kind of mastermind and connect with folks, and and uh I've had a lot of fun doing it. I love it.

SPEAKER_02 13:40

Well, it's isn't podcasting a nice outlet for people like you and me that just love to yap constantly. Now we can yap into a microphone and people listen.

SPEAKER_00 13:50

It's so true. It's so true. You know, it's it's it's interesting because some people have the gift of gab, some people are writers, uh, some people like to see themselves on camera, or you know, everyone has a different strength. And I think that's what's important in all conversations regarding branding and marketing is to find out what you're you're naturally inclined to do. I don't think any of us in the beginning are like a hundred percent comfortable with being on camera, being behind a microphone, you know, uh putting their words out there for the world to see. But find something that that you know you're inclined to do that you actually enjoy, and then really, you know, lean into it. And that's really where the magic happens.

SPEAKER_02 14:33

You're spot on. And I that's that's a theme that we talk about a lot on this show, and that I talk about on social media because that that was true for me. Like, I here's the thing I never ever in a million years would have thought that I could be a decent podcaster. I it was just like, oh, I'd like to do that, I'd like to podcast one day, but uh what do I know about podcasting? So I did it. I just I just did it and then learned it and found out. Like, and same thing when I first started in content marketing, and and listeners of this show that have been with us for for a while who have heard my content marketing story, I started out as a real estate blogger. And it's because at the time, this was like four years ago or something, I didn't know what else I could do. I was just like, wait, I could write an article and people could find it through Google and want to hire me. And I like that. And so like I just I did it. Like, I'm not a writer, but I became one. I had no idea until I started it. You have to sample this stuff. You don't know what you're good at unless you try doing it. And I mean, look at us. We're we're podcasters. A little fun fact, a little side note. If you guys are going to the Housing Wire conference in Charlotte in uh in June, mid-June, Phil and I are actually doing a uh what do they call that? A segment? No, uh a session. A session, thank you. We're actually doing a session together. It's just gonna be Phil and myself, um, basically just bullshitting the whole time, but but trying to be productive. And we're gonna be talking about podcasting and marketing and stuff, but none of that stuff would have happened if we didn't just jump out there and start podcasts.

SPEAKER_00 16:09

And you're exactly right. You know, the funny thing is I wanted to start a podcast over a year before I actually launched my first episode. And the only reason that that happened was while I realized I was onto something, the only reason I called my uh Instagram page mortgage marketing expert was because I owned the domain. I buy a lot of domains that I think you know might have some relevance for some business or idea in the future. I owned the domain, so that's what I named it. And then as it continued to grow, I decided I wanted to do a podcast again uh a year after the first uh I'd bought a Yeti microphone. I you know, tried to learn what I could, but I didn't do anything with it. So the second time around, I reached out to some who's who within the mortgage industry that I either knew personally or that I knew through an acquaintance or a friend, and I had three podcast recordings scheduled Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, and it was Monday, and I had absolutely no idea how to start a podcast other than the fact that I had a Yeti microphone. Like that was literally it. But I knew that if I had recordings, I would figure out how to do a podcast. And I Googled a couple of things, and honestly, the way it happened is I called a friend of mine who was a real estate agent, ironically, um, with one of the big franchises, and I knew him well enough to know there was no way that he had the tech background to have a podcast. So I called him and said, Hey man, listen, like you have a podcast. I know you're not doing this yourself. Like, how in the world are you pulling this off? And he hooked me up with some guys that did know how to do it, and and that's how it launched. So, to your point, uh people I think try to overplan, they try to be too intentional. Like, I was intentional enough to know that I had an idea and I wanted to execute it, I wanted to implement it, but I just went ahead and started and you kind of figured out along the way. And that's really been, I think, what both you and I have experienced is we went and did something, cool things happened along the way, we continue to build on it. You look back, you're like, holy cow, like we're being invited to national events to be speakers to talk about podcasting because we, you know, invited people to be on a podcast that didn't exist yet. Cool, like this works out.

SPEAKER_02 18:22

It it's so wild because I I've been a student of personal development stuff for a while. Because uh ever since when was it? Ever since like my my early to mid-20s, I've I knew like ever since I got shown entrepreneurship and what was possible, I I've wanted to be successful and wealthy and influential, and like I wanted all those things. At the time it was just you know, to have those things. You get you get moving along the way, and you're like, wait, I like this certain thing, I like this path, and and you start going down it. But like I kept hearing how you just have to take the step and you figure it out. Like you you just start moving forward and you figure it out along the way. And at the time, I hated that answer. I hated it. I'm like, just tell me the just freaking give me the steps and I'll do them. Not realizing until I look backwards that they were giving me the steps. Like just start moving forward. Just if you want to do a podcast, launch it and figure it out. It was Monday, you had a show Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, you didn't know how to do it, but you had a microphone, and guess what? You figured it out. 100%. It's unbelievable. So, guys, and this is this is a common theme. One of our most recent episodes, I think two shows ago, was about how work is the variable between you and the number one guy in your market. Work. It's just work. So do it. Figure it out along the way. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 19:48

And I'll I'll piggyback on that one more thing is that something I I tell all of my team and something I put out on social media and kind of a quote pit graphic. And I honestly don't know if I said it first or if I copied off somebody else, but it doesn't change the fact that it says ideas are good, plans are better, but execution is all that matters. And at the end of the day, we all have some really cool ideas that we talk about a lot, and we may go as far as the planning stage, that even the most detailed, perfect, planned out uh project never gets you any business, will never grow your brand, will never make you any money unless you start attempting to execute on it.

SPEAKER_02 20:30

A thousand percent. I mean, done is better than what's the phrase? Done is better than perfect. Yes, done. Absolutely. It's out there. Love it. Well, I wasn't really planning on that little uh sidebar or that that was freebie. That was free. Free little hashtag freebie. That's what we call a squirrel on the show where we just go off and you know, but it's good shit. Now, for the real reason I brought you on the show, as a regional manager, you've overseen dozens and dozens and dozens and dozens of lenders and and and help them with their marketing and co-marketing with agents and how to how to you know pick up new agent partners. And we're all trying to figure out as agents how to get more deals ourselves. What have you seen? Um, let's talk about, and I'm gonna give you a bunch of leeway here to just go whatever direction you want, but what have you seen that makes a really good and fruitful and mutually beneficial lender agent relationship?

SPEAKER_00 21:30

I think that at the end of the day, the best lender-realtor relationships are ones where both of them are invested in that relationship. And and what I mean by that is so often I think realtors see lenders as people that are coming to them for business and trying to get them to send them business and aren't necessarily offering anything of value in return. Nine out of ten times. 100%. And I'll give you another little side note. In the first time we met, uh, the first conversation you and I had, we had that same conversation because I was talking about the way to truly add value with a real estate partner is to create leads, to create marketing, to give them buyers. It's one thing to send a LinkedIn message, to send an email, send a text to say, you know, let me show how good my service really is. I'm a phenomenal marketer. It's another thing to say, you know, go be a phenomenal marketer, create a lead, find a buyer who's pre-approved, and go drop it at a realtor's feet and said, hey, I'm a phenomenal marketer. That's how I found this guy. Call me if you want to figure out how I got that one. Right? It's a completely different approach. And that first conversation that you and I had was how I knew that we were going to be, you know, fast friends is philosophically, we we thought the same way about this lender-realter relationship. And to your point, nine out of 10 of the lenders out there are trying to do it. Now, what realtors can do is you know let them prove themselves. You don't necessarily have to give them a deal. You don't have to entrust your paycheck to a lender and hope they get the deal closed and don't screw it up. Like I'm I'm fully aware of how that dynamic is. At the same time, the most fruitful relationships are ones that work together. I think that the biggest challenge as a lender is to find people that uh want to do business the same way, right? If if a realtor is getting the majority of the leads online, like just through paid ads or paid leads from all of the big names that I'll refrain from saying. But if if that's how you get your business, there isn't a whole lot of value that a lender can provide other than actually getting the loan closed, right? So how do you differentiate between the lenders that are taking it a step further and not? And that's really by sitting down and having those conversations. I say it a thousand times. People do business with people they like, right? Once you found a common ground with someone and you actually like them, find out the type of business that they do. Because typically people that like each other, that have a lot in common, also have the same beliefs or the same fundamentals of how they want to build their business. And the best relationships that you have within this industry are ones where people are trying to build the same type of business and you can grow and evolve together and you can add value to each other. And that is the in the in the small things. Whenever a real realtor, if if you're wanting to work with a lender, like you've either have an established relationship or you're wanting to start a relationship with someone, whether or not your buyer can work with that lender, a big part of that starts with the introduction. It starts with the handoff. Some of our best realtor relationships start off by saying some form of this. Mr. and Mrs. Smith, you're working with us, you're working with me and my team because you know that we're some of the best at what we do. We're real estate professionals. Um, we we know that you can we can take care of your needs, we can help you find a home, all of the things that that entails. Part of the reason we're good at what we do, part of the reason we can provide that level of service is because of the team around us. That includes title companies, that includes lenders, that includes home inspectors, all those people. This lender is who we know can not only provide the service level, that can provide you good rates and fees, that can get it done. And so for us to be able to commit a certain service level, we also have to make sure that you're working with people who also have the same commitment to that service level. And again, doesn't need to be verbatim, doesn't need to be identical, but what you have to do is give the handoff and make sure that the lead that you've worked hard for also has a vested interest to work with your partner the same way, same way with title companies, same way with home inspectors. And in turn, that lender is going to make sure that they bend over backwards to take care of that deal, to not only get it closed, to get it close on time, and help you build your business. Those mutually beneficial relationships, those are the best kind to have. And I think the biggest mistake that I see with real estate professionals is say, yeah, well, here's the three or four or two that we recommend. You know, let me know what which one you want to go with. And there's not necessarily anything wrong with that, except you're you're not you're not stepping up with that level of service. Use your lender partners as another value add. And again, you have to make sure that that partner is the right partner, but use that as another way to create amazing service, to create an amazing experience for your buyer. And if if you're working with a good lender who understands good service levels and keeps that quality high, all that's gonna do is make you look good because you referred that lender. Exactly right.

SPEAKER_02 27:05

And I I really like the way you you portrayed that to the client, right? Uh how an agent would recommend a lender to a client. I like the way you worded that. Um, because that's right. Like it, like, look, if you if we're gonna do the job that you hired us to do, like we need our team, and you know, we can't just have you go pick a random teammate and then think that it's all gonna work together. They can, of course, and you got to be careful that you're not, you know, that whole thing. But like just recommend people and tell tell people why and that you trust them, and here's why. Absolutely. Little uh it's interesting because as you were as you were talking about that, I was thinking of the lenders that I personally work with. My one of my preferred lenders, I really work with two. One of them I've been with for six or seven years, and it it all comes down to the fact that I like him. Okay, that I think that like he and I have become really good friends, but at the very beginning, I liked him. And then I started, you know, I looked at some reviews and stuff, and I'm like, well, it seems like he really knows his shit. And and so I I send him some some deals, he does know his shit, great team, like super, super efficient. Uh, love them. Like they can close in 14 days sometimes, like just it's just awesome. But then I realized I've never received one single lead from him, but I'm cool with that. All right. It's I I swear some realtors are like extortionists when they go to the lender and want, and you see it all the time. Here, you know, pay for half of our Zillow or we find someone who will. Like cool. Go screw yourself, go find someone who does then. I don't care if I've received a lead from this lender because I know 100% of the time I can refer a family member to them and they will get the best service, the quickest, just amazing. Like I personally got a mortgage through this guy. And so I don't care if it's reciprocated with leads. I'm taken care of, and that that is a mutually beneficial relationship in my eyes, because of the level of service and and trust that I have, that anyone I send their way is going to be treated perfectly. To me, that's mutually beneficial. It's not all about leads going back and forth, not all the time.

SPEAKER_00 29:22

Agreed. And and and it's interesting because you you kind of confirmed exactly what I said. You do business with the guy because you like him. You know, again, people do business with people they like. If people thought for just a second outside of mortgage and real estate, they thought for a second about if the the last uh referral that they gave, or people that they do refer business to in other industries, whether it's uh a mechanic, whether it's a you know, a beautician, cosmetologist, or you know, to get your car fixed, all those different types of things, at the end of the day, it's attached to some type of a relationship. We could get lost in the weeds. And you and I are big proponents of social media, of digital marketing, of platforms. Like I'm not taking away from that at all. But business is done with relationships. The whole point of social media is to be social. I literally just got off of Facebook Live a few minutes ago talking about social media. And the theme at the end of the day is about social media being social, about creating relationships. It's an unintrusive way for lenders to get to know realtors, realtors to get to know lenders, and outside of business, it's why it's so popular. We really want to know about each other's lives. So, because of that, why in the world are people constantly posting their reviews or their listings or what's happening in their business? It's not that that's not important on a certain level, but you want to know who those people are, you want to know about them so that you can find out if that's someone you want to develop a friendship with or a relationship with. Leads are important, but it's more the philosophy of doing business. You have two lenders. Great. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. We have more than one friend, we have more than one people that we that we live life with. At the end of the day, though, you have to develop a relationship with those people. And the biggest mistake that I see on the lending side as we're trying to develop relationships with realtors is them immediately saying, Okay, well, how much will you contribute to my Zillow or Boomtown or Commissions Inc. or whatever type of lead generation service they have? Because my originators can sit down and have a conversation with them about how to create leads at a fraction of the cost, in large part of the types of things that you teach in the Mass Evasion Society, about how to create true engagement, about how to leverage Facebook ads. You know, I had the conversation the other day. It used to be the real estate book. That's how we co-branded with realtors, and then we moved into the website and SEO space, and then it evolved into Zillow ads and the like, and we're now in the Facebook ad lead generation or social media. And that's the the way that the industry has evolved. But the biggest mistake a realtor can make when when trying to choose a lender is finding out who's going to write the biggest check, because there's absolutely more to it than that.

SPEAKER_02 32:25

And that was definitely one of the questions is what's what's the biggest screw up? And I believe that. I think because I hear about that all the time, is God, and I can I can't even imagine if I was a lender, I think I would I'd cut there'd be some confrontations. If someone came to me and and all they wanted was me to write a check when they've done nothing for me, I know because I know how it feels when a lender just sends me a DMs like, hey, send me your send me your leads and I'll show you what a great lender I am. Like, cool dude that I've met like 32 seconds ago. Uh well, not even met. You just spammed me 32 seconds ago. You want me to send you a lead I've been nurturing for two and a half years that cost me, I don't know, th $300 to to acquire or whatever. And you want me to just send them to you and hope that you're good at what you at what you do? Because you haven't proven that you're a very good marketer. Uh so I I know I could only imagine what that feels like. So it sounds to me like realtors who do this, who approach a lender, a potential partner, and they completely kill any chance of that ever moving forward because they're just in gimme, gimme, gimme mode, when that could have been such a fruitful, fruitful, uh mutually beneficial relationship, but they'll never know because all they went into it just asking. Just, you know, give me shit because I'm the realtor.

SPEAKER_00 33:42

See, and and from the lender's perspective, that's almost a bullseye. If you know that there's a realtor who does good business and they've they've started working with a lender who, you know, we know has subparse service, that's just an opportunity in the making, right? Most realtors that make that mistake learn from it very quickly, most of the time, because the the lenders that are having to pay for the business have to pay for the business for a reason. And I think that that's what realtors need to understand. If someone wants to talk through and they want to invest in each other's business, that's very different. But a lot of times people that are eager to write checks are eager to write checks because they don't have any other alternatives. And so when we see that, we literally will take some time and develop a strategy of, okay, when that goes south, what are we going to do? And so we've developed products like EMT, the emergency mortgage transfer. And it's a loan that from start to finish we can do in about eight days because it started with another lender, and some of the pieces of it are already done. And to be compliant, you really can't close a loan any faster than eight days because of the weights as far as disclosures and the closing disclosure and things of that nature. So we develop products like that specifically because we know there's lenders out there that are going to fumble. There's there's they're they're going to drop the ball. And so, you know, realtors, I think marketing is a huge piece of it. I mean, I have a podcast called Mortgage Marketing Expert, where I talk to some of the top mortgage marketing experts in the industry. And Fraser. And Jason Frazier, too. We we let him on. I got that Venmo too. Um we we we talk to those people about lead generation, about lead conversion, about mindset. That's all important. But at the end of the day, is their trust? And I'll I'll give you another thing that I say almost every podcast and almost every interview or recording that I do is that effective marketing is the balance of trust and attention. I could light myself on fire and put it on Facebook and get lots of attention, but that doesn't mean that I've developed any trust for people to do business with me. At the same time, I could be the most trusted mortgage banker on the planet, but if people don't know who I am, I'm still not going to do any business. And so you have to find people that you can market with, that you can develop trust with. And at the end of the day, as you put it, that you actually like doing business with, right? You have to like the people. That's why we gave Jason the love. We actually like Jason. We want to do business with him. You want people that you can joke with, you want people that you can enjoy life with, in addition to business. And that's why at the end of the day, all of these things coming together is more important than just leads, whether we're paying for them or providing them. But at the same time, you also want to work and find a lender who can who can give you all of it. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 36:47

I mean, guys, you should be that there's certain things that you must expect from your your lender partner or lenders from your realtor partner. There's things that are a given. Oh, you have great service. We have you know great rates, like you know, that's a given. You you should. Um, like that's not a that's not special. That's not gonna lure me away from people I've been working with for seven years because you say you have good service. Like it what's the alternative? You have shitty service, you know? Obviously, the answer is yes, and we know plenty of those. But like I I just don't understand. I I don't know. I'm I'm at this point where I'm uh I'm kind of dumbfounded by um the expectations of a lot of agents, a lot of lenders. Um they they need to take a step back and realize that it's not like they could have such a more fruitful relationship if they just talk to each other, and not in a what can you do for me kind of way, but in a like, hey, are you the right long-term partner to work with? Obviously, they've got to be great. They have their company has to be able to get shit done quickly, good rates, good, you know, low fees, stuff like that. But beyond that, like, do they have similar mindsets? Do they have a similar approach to similar personalities, even? Because like that's important, you know. Um, I can't, with my personality, if somebody comes to work with me, if they hire me as their buyer's agent and and they like my personality, you know, God bless them, but if they like my personality, then if I refer them to someone with no sense of humor, no personality, no sarcasm, they're just like, you know, a robot, that's not gonna be right. You know, they're gonna the client's not gonna be stoked on that. That's gonna be weird. So there has to be alignment on so many levels. And I just I just see so many agents that are basically extortionists going to lenders saying, write me a check or I'll go somewhere else. Lenders, let them. Seriously. I don't know. I it's just it's just frustrating. I don't know what the hell they're doing.

SPEAKER_00 38:49

Well, and I'll tell you, we're even taking it a step further. Um all of my originators, there may be a few small partnerships um left, but in large part, 95 uh to 98 percent we have withdrawn from all uh lead sharing relationships with realtors as far as the pay-to-play situation. And I'll tell you why. There's like Borillo 50-50 split stuff. Correct. We we've exited almost all of those. Wow. The reason being um so many have taken a stance of it's it's pay to pay-to-play. You know, you you want to do business, you've got to pay for leads. And that's not a mutually beneficial you know relationship. We we we're we're not if we're not taking the time to get to know each other to do business, then then we're not gonna take that step. But the main two reasons are one, Zillow's now entered the mortgage space, and I'm not in the business of funding my competition, right? I'm just not gonna do it. Right. And the second thing is that for the amount of money that both our referral partner and we are spending on leads, channeled more efficiently, more effectively through Facebook ads and other marketing endeavors, you get a lot more traction. And so we've purposely exited those, and we've not lost a single referral relationship by exiting those because we've channeled those into other things. Some of them are as simple as doing community events or parties. And I'll tell you, from the very beginning of my career as an originator, and I was a top producer in about a six-state region. Um, I would that was for the largest lender in the country at the time. I've owned branches, I owned a broker shop, I've I've done a lot of different things to my career. The single most effective marketing dollar that I've ever spent has been in a happy hour. And again, it's not about drinking alcohol, it's about spending time face to face with people. What we used to do, this has been years ago, and I offer this advice up to anybody that wants to do it. We'll reach out to a realtor team or to an office and say, hey, we're gonna be at uh XYZ, um, either like a little bar, a little Mexican food place, whatever you want. And we're gonna do it from five to seven. We're gonna provide drinks, we're gonna provide queso, appetizers, whatever. They come, we'll give everybody two or three tickets. The the establishment knows when you give the ticket, um, that's that's on our tab, and they have a list of you know, happy hour specials, whether they're you know, beers or wine or mixed drinks, margaritas, whatever it is, and they just add up the tab, and at the end of the day, we pick up the check. It's never more than a few hundred dollars, because let's be honest. So people go to happy hour, they have a cocktail or two, they eat some chips, they talk, and then they all go home. And but what happens during that is you sit and have conversations about what's happening with your business. You sit and have conversations about what's working, about what's not, about what you can do for each other, about where you want your businesses to be, and you you get to know each other and you end up funny thing, liking each other and realizing you have a lot in common. And then all the other tactics that we talk about, Facebook ads, um, social media, technology, leads, all the other stuff will come because we took the time to develop a relationship. I would spend four and five, ten, infinite times X the amount that we spend on those types of social events compared to any other type of marketing we do because of the mileage. And this is something that over the last five or six years, I've even tested one of my top producers didn't really do these types of events the first couple of years. And I finally got her to just say, hey, just have a happy hour event, invite some some realtors, invite a team. And they got so much business from it that it's now their largest generating source of business and and new partners that they work with. And I think realtors can do that too. You can do, you know, happy hours with past streamers, you can do friends and family events, you can do a swarming party where you bring in food and cater so that once someone closes, they invite all their friends and family to celebrate their new house and you're sponsoring it. What happens is that excitement breeds excitement. They walk around talking to each other and they decide, hey, like maybe we want to buy a house, maybe we want to do something. And I promise you that if you reached out to your lender partner, they would 100% want to share in the cost of that with you. But for a couple hundred dollars, you're you're you're getting people excited, making them happy, and having real world conversations and relationships. And I think that's where all of the conversation should be going. Social media is so important. Digital technology, it's all so important, so long as you're using it to get back to the basic, which is a human relationship with someone else who philosophically wants to do business the same way you do.

SPEAKER_02 44:01

Such great advice. And as much as we talk about digital marketing and Facebook ads and and online tactics and tricks and and what on this show, it's all important, but it's it's a tool. It's just one tool. And the, you know, like you said, you've got to, you have to it's all about the relationship. It's how do you build a new one? How do you create one? How do you cultivate one? How do you have more of them? Like it's amazing how just um like something that I've done for for past clients is I'll hire a professional photographer and and we'll just do like a family photo shoot night. And I send out like a calendarly link and they can sign up for a time slot, and you know, we'll do like however many time slots, and um, you know, everyone gets gets a 10-minute slot, and they just show up at a certain place at a certain time, and they get free family photos. Like it could just be one person getting headshots, it could be a couple or a family, however many they want. I've paid for the photographer for a set number of hours, and they love that stuff. Like it it's not about the Facebook ads and the leads, like that's one way to get new people to talk to, yes, but then you've got to take care of them, and and it's all about the personal connection. The happy hour thing, I I was blown away when I was in Scottsdale uh month or so ago. Like everything's happy hour, happy hour. It's like they all live for happy hour, but I understand it, I get it. Like that's when you have conversations with people, that is where the real connection happens, and and so that's really cool that even though you know you've done all the Facebook ads, you've done the Zillow, the best ROI you've seen is on Happy Hour. It is 100%. Awesome, awesome. And uh yeah, I I that's kind of crazy. Happy hours, as far as I've seen in Salt Lake, they're not they're not really a big thing. Like, I don't know, maybe I just don't get out much. I think honestly, I think that's probably it. In Salt Lake, I do not get out much, but I don't see I don't see many other brokerages or or whoever doing happy hour things. I'm sure they do, but nothing like Scottsdale, Jesus. And I so Dallas is probably the same, sounds like.

SPEAKER_00 46:11

Yeah, you know, it and and again, it's it's about being where people are, trying to be social, right? Yeah, no one wants to sit down and have a full-on meal. And so somewhere where you can have some appetizers, um, you know, a glass of wine, a beer, a cocktail, um, or you know, just a water, like like who cares? At the end of the day, you're you're somewhere comfortable where people can be social, where people can talk and there's no pressure. You know, that that's another thing that, you know, we've been to Agent 2021, we've you've been a speaker there, we've had a lot of conversations about you know, Gary V's content. One of the things that I appreciate most about his content isn't as much the tactics as it is the understanding of human behavior. And if you stop and think about how humans behave, what trends are happening, that really gives you insight in how to be most effective and most efficient as you're building your business. People want to be in a non-threatening situation where nothing is necessarily required of them, or there's not necessarily anything asked of them. And so I even coach that with my uh with my my team is if you're going out and and making sales calls or making cold calls, when you have someone on the other end, you know, you don't want to ask something of them necessarily, but that's the the perception that you're giving is that they have to do something, they have to make a decision, um, they're you're asking something of them, where happy hours is a place where it's very casual. Nobody wants anything. Your whole purpose of being there is just to be there. And it creates a comfort level that people enjoy. And that's where the ROI comes from. And it's it's difficult to track. It's the same way, I don't know if it was last episode or the episode before of your podcast where you talk about, you know, Facebook ads isn't run an ad today, get a lead tomorrow, uh, you know, show houses the next day and have a contract by Friday. You know, that's not the way business works. You can't necessarily track this perfect ROI in your marketing activities, especially Facebook ads. You can talk about impressions and leads and engagement and all those types of things, but it's a long-term process. Facebook ads is just another way to create attention, to create a lead so that you have an opportunity to develop that relationship. Happy hours is the same way. It's just another opportunity to create relationships with those people. And honestly, we may use Facebook ads, we may use other engagement to promote the event. If we're if we're not targeting a specific team or a specific office, that's a great way to create attention. But again, the purpose of that Facebook ad, the communication that we're trying to put out there is for an event, and the event is about the relationship.

SPEAKER_02 49:03

Absolutely. I love it. That's great, great insight, great tips. Phil, um, I have a couple. So whenever we have a guest, we do these rapid fire questions at the end to get a little glimpse into you and and what you like and dislike. These are kind of fun. I we actually got uh chastised and uh and we had a listener kind of upset when we were in uh we were in Phoenix. They're like, why'd you stop doing the rapid fire? And I was like, I forgot to do them, so we're gonna do them. I like it. Let's do it. Yeah, just some either or stuff. Phil, Facebook or Instagram? Instagram.

SPEAKER_01 49:37

Instagram or Snapchat? Instagram. Book or podcast? Podcast.

SPEAKER_02 49:44

iPhone or Android? iPhone. Good call. Alexa or Google Home? Alexa. Of course, I forgot to unplug mine. There we go. Yeah, mine's gone off too. Burgers or pizza?

SPEAKER_00 49:57

Oh, that's tough.

SPEAKER_02 50:00

Um pizza. New York or LA? New York. I know you're a New York fan.

SPEAKER_00 50:07

You're a Chicago fan too, right? I am. I like I love New York. I love Chicago. Those cities are just amazing.

SPEAKER_02 50:13

I'm not spinning up the the the downtown, like the the It is. That like crazy, like high-density downtown, like the you know, horns honking. Like I love that shit.

SPEAKER_00 50:23

Yeah, I've not spent enough time in LA to not say, to say that it's not in that category, but New York, there's no city like it in the world, in my opinion. Chicago is another amazing city. Like New York, only I can raise my elbows. Yes, which is always nice.

SPEAKER_02 50:39

Mountains or beach?

SPEAKER_00 50:41

Mountains.

SPEAKER_02 50:42

Are we in a real estate bubble or no bubble?

SPEAKER_01 50:47

No bubble. Okay. Podcast or vlog? Podcasts. YouTube or Facebook Live? YouTube book or audiobook? Both. Oh Jesus.

SPEAKER_00 51:03

Sorry, that's I that's here's the thing. I I I do both. I I consume a lot of audible, but I also read a lot of books. And if it's a book I really like, I'll do both. Got it, got it. Uber or Lyft? Uber?

SPEAKER_02 51:17

Gary V or Grant Cardone? Gary V. Frazier or Brome? Brome, baby.

unknown 51:25

Woo!

SPEAKER_02 51:26

All right. And then what is one app that you are loving right now? It doesn't have to be real estate related at all. Just one app recommendation for the peeps.

SPEAKER_00 51:36

Uh Spring. So it's an app. Yeah, so it's an it's a it's a running app where um you turn the app on and you start running, and it'll calculate your beats per minute, and it'll only play you songs at that beat per minute. What? That's cool. Yeah, it's really, really cool. I um I downloaded it a while back and didn't like it very much, and I tried it again because of an Instagram ad, by the way. And I downloaded again and really kind of liked it. It's it's cool. And my wife would be really upset if I didn't mention this because I probably spend more time on this app than any other, and that's golf clash. Love me some golf clash. Is that uh is that a game? It is, and I I don't I don't do app games at all, but for some reason this ended up on my phone, and I find myself a lot of downtime. Uh and I'm not even a real golfer, but I I love some golf clash.

SPEAKER_02 52:31

I haven't heard of that. I'll have to check that out. No, no, I'm not. That's the last thing I need to do. The game. I'll tell my wife, though, because she loves playing iPhone games. Yes, for sure. And then uh, where can they find you, Phil? Where can they follow you? Where can they find you? Let let the peeps know how they can get some more Phil Treadwell.

SPEAKER_00 52:49

So all of my social media handles are at Philtreadwell. Um that's P-H-I-L-T-R-E-A-D-W-E-L-L. Uh that's Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, um, all of the the platforms for the most part. And then um Mortgage Marketing Expert is is the other one, um, at Mortgage Marketing Expert on Facebook, Instagram, and on Twitter, it's mortgage underscore M M E. Awesome.

SPEAKER_02 53:17

And Phil and his show, of course, members of the Industry Syndicate Media Network. Uh Phil's actually one of the one of the co-founders with us, which is awesome. And Phil is going to be at Mortgage Mastermind in Vegas on uh what is June 5th through June. June 5th through the 7th.

SPEAKER_00 53:33

Yeah, June 5th through the 7th. It's uh Wednesday through Thursday in Vegas, is the Mortgage Mastermind event. And then the next week uh we will, you and I and uh a lot of our associates will be at uh Engage Marketing Summit by Housing Wire in Charlotte on June 13th and 14th. Yes, hell yes.

SPEAKER_02 53:51

And I'll be at Mortgage Mastermind as well in Vegas, hobnobbing with all the mortgage peeps, and that'll be fun. And uh yeah, so if you guys are gonna be at either event, make sure you let us know. Hit us up with uh with a DM on Instagram, we'd love to meet you. Um the HousingWire one's gonna be a lot of fun, especially when they they let us take over the stage. What the hell are they thinking?

SPEAKER_00 54:12

They're losing their mind, but I will say um if someone has not purchased their ticket to engage marketing, um, to reach out to either Dustin or I, and we can give you a code that will give you a discount off of your tickets. I think the early bird tickets are done, but we do have some cool uh associate friends and family codes that we can get you some discounts on tickets. I highly recommend this event. Um, it's gonna be practitioners, people that are actually in the hunt doing things marketing related. It's not um some folks that are in the twilight of their career that had extremely successful careers that are talking about what's relevant today. No disrespect to conferences like that. There's a lot of wisdom that can be gained, but you're gonna hear a lot of uh speakers and panelists that are actually in the hunt making things happen right now with the things that they're talking about. So we're super excited about the event.

SPEAKER_02 55:05

Love it. Phil, thanks so much, man. I appreciate it. I'll see you in Vegas in in uh in a few weeks and appreciate you being on the show, my man. Man, I appreciate it looking forward to it. Absolutely. See ya. Great stuff from Phil Treadwell. Phil, thank you so much. Guys, uh, I highly recommend you go listen to Phil's podcast, even if you're not in the mortgage world. All right. I know most of you that listen to this show are agents. It is the massive agent podcast, I get it, but a lot of the a lot of the guests he has on his show just have such great information, and it doesn't matter. You could maybe you're not even in the real estate industry. His show is great. Mortgage Marketing Expert Podcast. You could also um check out his flash briefing by the same name. Uh I highly recommend it. Phil is a great guy that really, really knows his shit. Uh I mentioned last week on last week's show that two times a month for the rest of this year, I will be doing in-person coaching. All right, and this could be for just you yourself, you and and a few teammates, maybe you and your brokerage, but I will be traveling um twice a month. I am available to travel to you for a full day, 9 a.m. to 5 p.m. And you know, we could even we could even go a little bit longer than that if you if you'd like. But um I found that people sometimes the online coaching or the Zoom calls for coaching sometimes, like it's great. Like we can make a lot of progress, but sometimes, well, it's it's just not as impactful as if I was able to go with you to your office, sit down with you for the day, see how you do things, give you some ideas on how to how to change things and make them better. Like if I could go to your office with you or come to your office and speak to all of your real estate agents, if you're a broker or whatever, reach out, send me a DM on Instagram, say, hey, I'm interested in that in-person coaching thing. And uh so I take care of my travel. It's an all-inclusive, you know, all inclusive fee. My travel, all of that food is all included. I take care of that from my end. Um, so if that interests you, I already have May is full, and I have one spot open in June. And uh, let's see. I think July we have one spot taken already. Let me know, ASAP, even if you're thinking four, five, six months down the road so we can get you on the books. But um, I've had some interest in that, so that's cool. Look, you guys need a coach. You you guys need a coach. That doesn't mean you have to hire one, right? Some some people can learn everything they need to know by listening to a podcast or reading a book or watching a video or something, okay? You need someone who's done what you're trying to do to teach you how to do it. That's that's why coaching matters. Now, some people need a little more hand holding. Some people we can get on a one-hour coaching call and you'll get the answers you need, and boom, you're on your way. Some people need more long term, some people need more, like, I have no, like, I need you to come sit with me and show me how. I'm here for you. Reach out, we'll figure out how to make that happen. And earlier this earlier this week, we hit uh episode number 300 of our massive agent minute Alexa Flash Briefing, which is super cool. 300 straight days of a new original show every single day. Um it's crazy because when when I we just launched Industry Connected and episode four comes out tomorrow on Friday, and we do it every Friday, 2 p.m. Eastern time on the Industry Syndicate Facebook page. Then it goes, then the replay goes up on YouTube. Of course, it's always available on the Facebook page, and now it's a podcast as well. But when we launched that, I'm thinking, oh, this is my second show. I've had Massive Agent Minute, and we just hit episode 300. So I have three shows that I'm doing, which is kind of crazy. But I'm very proud we hit episode 300. Next stop is episode 365, and we have a brand new episode every single day, seven days a week, even Saturday and Sunday, a new tip or an idea, a strategy, an app recommendation, um, it's something that will help you as an agent or a loan officer to improve your business, improve your mind, improve something. I highly recommend it if you if you have not yet, please go enable the Massive Agent Minute flash briefing, and all you have to do is say Alexa, enable the Massive Agent Minute. You can do that on your Alexa device, your Echoes, you can do it just on the Alexa app, even if you don't have an Echo device. Just get the Alexa app and enable the Massive Agent Minute. You could even type Massive Agent Minute into the search bar on Amazon. Just go do that. Just go to Amazon, type in Massive Agent Minute, enable it, and then listen. As always, please subscribe, or with the flash briefing, enable. Subscribe to this show because we come out with a new show every Thursday morning. Please subscribe to the new Industry Connected as well, which the podcast will come out every Friday afternoon. And uh and then you don't have to remember to come back. It they just show up in your podcast player. Most podcast uh excuse me, most podcast players even give notifications that a new episode is available. So then you're not missing anything. Please subscribe. It also helps us. Um whenever you subscribe, it tells iTunes or whatever the podcast player is, it tells them that the show is in demand and it helps us helps our show be wow, this is a tongue freaking tongue twister. It helps our show be shown to more people by you subscribing. So it helps you, helps us. Thank you guys for those who already have. I appreciate it. And then last mention of the day, MassiveAgenSociety.com. We still have lifetime memberships available. Uh we had a few markets taken off the board forever this last week. And you can you can pick up a lifetime membership or an annual membership, or are, of course, you could always just do it month by month, whatever works for you. But find out why people are reserving their market, not reserving, claiming, um buying their market so that no other agent or loan officer could claim it. Find out more about what we do and how we do it over at MassiveAgen Society.com. We'd love to have you as a member, and you'd be surprised, guys. You'd be surprised how many major markets are still available. Major markets. So if you have any questions about what what is a market, like what how do you define a market, all of that stuff, MassiveAgenentSociety.com or shoot us a message on Facebook or Instagram, and we can help you out there. Remember, guys, we are a proud founding member of the Industry Syndicate. You could check out all of our shows at industry syndicate.com. And some of the links mentioned in this episode or prior episodes may be affiliate links, which means that if you chose to make a purchase, I would earn a very small commission at no additional cost to you. It's affiliate marketing, it's a beautiful thing. Does it it never cost the consumer anything extra, but it helps out uh it helps out our show? It helps us to reinvest back into making the podcast better. Uh, we can get better guests, better equipment, uh, we can do more, all that fun stuff. Please understand anything I recommend, I have experience with. I'm not just gonna sell you something because I make a dollar twenty off of it or whatever the hell it is. So I only recommend things that I have experience with and that I personally use or or would use. All right. It's very important to me. Please don't spend any money on anything. Okay, not just whatever we talk about, but in life in general, don't spend money on anything that you don't really need. Okay. You don't if you don't need another CRM, don't go sign up for Wise Agent. Okay. You don't, if you don't need one, if you have one that works fine, you don't need another one. Okay. But if you're looking for another solution for a CRM, Wise Agent's awesome. MassiveAgent Podcast.com slash wise agent, get a 30-day free trial and our drip campaigns. But I'm telling you guys, if you're looking for new solutions, especially if you're a newer agent or you just want to improve your stuff, go to MassiveAgent Podcast.com slash resources to check out everything that we recommend. And you can get discounts on most of it too. So check that out. Thank you guys so much for tuning in as always. And please, please check out our brand new show, Industry Connected, on all the major podcast platforms. Same place you're listening to this. Please go subscribe to Industry Connected and then tune in Friday afternoons, 2 p.m. Eastern time, live on Facebook on the Industry Syndicate page. And we are diving deep and having honest discussions about what how we can improve our industry. Thank you guys. Have a great weekend.